New South Fails - 2011

Discussion in 'The Cesspit: Rugby League Discussion' started by Maroon_Faithful, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. Magic AJ Parker

    Lyon is a much better attacking centre, Tate runs a good line and has good strength but that's about where it ends for him tbh. Certainly since all his injuries anyway...
     
  2. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    I agree Lyon offers more - He is excellent at setting up his outside man and even a good chip or grubber. However, Tate's work out of his own end, the non-flashy hard work, is as good as any outside back in the comp. He's also got pace on his side.

    Anyway, the difference between Lyon and Tate in defence is bigger than the difference in their attack, for mine.
     
  3. Julian BJ Taylor


    - I'm not Ged so would never pick a player based on state.

    - Tate is a lot weaker in attack and has nothing on Lyon over the past 18 months IMO.

    - No. You can't use Tate's efforts from 3 years ago to pick him in the Australian side....you can use that as to why you like him/rate him. It's why I like/rate Uate. How many times do I have to say I wouldn't pick Uate for Australia this year?
     
  4. Julian BJ Taylor

    - Yeah I don't mind that but Australia aren't going to have either of them on thewing. It just won't happen.

    - Not an argument. Just stating it won't happen.

    - Yes, at club level. Only because Lyon has been shit in Origin since he came back from England though. I'm still adamant now he's back to his best he'll be great in the centres for NSW. It's a pity; a) he was picked at five-eighth and b) he got injured and didn't get a game at centre.
     
  5. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    I disagree but regardless, perhaps that has something to do with Tate being injured for extended periods.

    Why not?

    I realise that. You said you'd have him as first pick for NSW though.
     
  6. Julian BJ Taylor

    - I think you answered that question by bringing up the excessive injury problems. If Tate was back to his best form, and had been for a season then fair enough. But he's not (IMO) as people rarely are after an ACL reco. Meanwhile I think Jamie Lyon is currently back to his best. Would have no opposition to Tate ahead of Lyon in say the ANZAC test next year if he's form keeps improving and he stays injury free.

    - Wingers have been NSW's biggest problem besides the halves since we started losing IMO. The props have been a problem too but they haven't been targeted and exploited to the extent that the wingers have.

    Quinn, Williams, Turner, Monaghan, McManus have all had their shortcomings highlighted and abused by Qld really. I really like Gordon and Morris but I am a big believer in one of your wingers being able to make good early metres or at least being exceptional scooters. I don't think the current pair fit into either category tbh.

    Completely unrelated but this exact feature of Daniel Vidot's game is what has me convinced he's the best 'young' option for Qld if and when they decide to take that road. Offers a lot more than Yow Yeh. They don't need to pick either of them any time soon but if injury/suspensions happen I reckon he's the young guy with the most potential.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  7. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    I think you've got the order backwards. Halves in the middle, sure, but props are the starting point IMO. Your winger troubles are partially a manifestation of the inability to lay the platform, by the forwards, most chiefly the props. I emphasise partially. However, the opposite is certainly not true - It's not as if any of the prop problems have anything to do with the wingers, in any respect.

    Interesting that you do not include Hayne in that list. He was, to my mind, just as badly exposed. IMO actually more so than Turner as he only played one game - Hayne has been found out for over two years now. You advocated him for NSW and Australia for last year and even further back. You also, IIRC, advocated Monoghan.
     
  8. Julian BJ Taylor

    Hayne should be included in that list; definitely!

    On Monaghan: yes I was an advocate. But the game I attended (game 2) opened my eyes that his time has come and gone. I reckon he's even on his last legs as an NRL player. He'll have one more year and then chase the big bikkies in England and play with his brother one last time. I think it was a manifestation of him playing centre for the last 2 years and then all of a sudden being chucked onto the wing against a rampant Qld. No matter what it was he wasn't, and is no longer, up to rep footy. On the other hand I always thought Monaghan should have been selected pretty much solely to defend Folau on the wing. He never was. Even 2 years ago he was on one wing marking Boyd and Quinnn marked Folau. How ****ing retarded is that?

    Anyway I have a few thoughts on the NSW team for next year. You be online after the 9 broadcast of teh footy?
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  9. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    Sorry I didn't reply. What are your thoughts, and please don't tell me you want Tilse in the NSW team. Hehe.
     
  10. Ged GEC King

    1. Dugan
    6. Campese
    13. Fensom
     
  11. Boobidy BJ Gemmell

    Campese should be there, IMO.
     
  12. Julian BJ Taylor

    Been watching a lot of football lately and in terms of playmaking combinations I'vre just formed a few opinions that I don't think will change at all any time soon.

    To me it is absolutely obvious that NSW need to go with Pearce and Carney next year and for quite a while. Injury is the only thing that will change that for me. And then I've thought back to when/how they have played well at any level and what they need. AFAIC there are a couple oif things they need to play well...

    Carney needs: an organising halfback with a good short/attacking kicking game (his best footy has been with Pearce or Dobson at halfback), a decent forward pack (not touching on that yet) and a genuine running fullback or third ball player who is not too dominant. For when Canberra had Dobson, Campese and him at once it was a bit too much and Carney became lost at times.

    Pearce needs: A good forward pack (as above), a running five-eighth with a good long kicking game (why he and Anasta struggled when alone IMO as Anasta's long kicking is deplorable) and a third ball player at a stretch to take pressure off if need be (like Anasta now). But once again the other ball player can't be too dominant as it would stifle Carney's game. Pearce and Carney have been better since Anasta took a backseat.

    Now surprise, surprise, I'm not advocating Braith Anasta. I'm advocating these 2 in the halves with Greg Bird at lock. Bird will be a ball runner who can play a bit if absolutely necessary. It's Bird's best spot/role IMO.

    Now with all this said I think Hayne at fullback would **** the combination (mainly Carney) and NSW in general because of it. Hayne playing as an out and out fullback is useless IMO because there are better people for that job. I, ****ing obviously, would pick Dugan for the above reasons. But that's not what I'm getting at. I just think we need a natural fullback to play an out and out fullback role. We need someone consistent (Hayne fails there), someone great positionally and defensively (Hayne fails there) and someone very good in support (Hayne tends to fail there too IMO). If he's not in gaol and he's back to 100% I think Brett Stewart could be ****ing brilliant behind a good pack + Pearce and Carney.

    But then. Where does that leave Hayne? I simply don't know. He's ****ed on the wing so there's no spot for him in my 13. But then could he be used off the bench? I don't know if he could. The only thing I can think of is him off the bench to be used if NSW are down points as an impact player. On his day he may be the best player around but I honestly don't see a part for him with Pearce and Carney running the show.
     
  13. jazman84 JM Eightyfour

    I reckon Walsh would do everything you just said, and compliment Carney, better than Pearce.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  14. Henry Marshall H Marshall

    Yeah nar.
     
  15. jazman84 JM Eightyfour

    I would consider selecting a bloke like Campese over Lyon at centre if Campo isn't going to be considered at 5/8. While Lyon is in good form, he has been exposed by QLD's left side attack many times. I don't see that ending anytime soon.
     
  16. Cribbage RG Cribb

    :laugh:
     
  17. Speirz DG Speirs

    I'd probably agree at NRL level, but I don't think he'd be up to it in Origin, particularly on the defensive side of things. To me though, the halves also depend on who we pick at hooker. If it's Farah we need someone who plays well with a deeper backline and set structure, with Ennis you can pick someone who plays flat and quick.
     
  18. jazman84 JM Eightyfour

    He cant be any worse than Locky at 1 on 1 defence. Just give him a minder. Pearce isn't exactly the greatest defender in the world himself.
     
  19. Julian BJ Taylor

    The more I see of Pearce the more I like him.
     
  20. Speirz DG Speirs

    I think a lot of his form this year could be down to Brian Smith tbh. He seems to always have been able to get a team to play to a structure and plan. It definitely helps the halfback if most of the team can already organise itself.
     

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