2014 State of Origin

Discussion in 'The Cesspit: Rugby League Discussion' started by KimmorleyKiller, Jul 17, 2013.

Page 23 of 170

  1. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    If we're going back to 2009 and further still, his defence was shit no matter where he played. You know I'm his biggest critic but he's definitely improved in that area. He'd just need to be told not to race out of the line, which was half his problem. The other half was technique and that, as I said, has improved.
     
    Maroon_Faithful, Oct 21, 2013
    #441

  2. Cribbage RG Cribb

    His technique has improved because he's now defending in a position that suits front-on tackling and a missle-like shots far more. I really wouldn't trust him to defend on the fringes for any period of time, honestly. I just don't think that having a forward rotation of

    Prop/Lock who will play really long minutes
    Prop
    Prop who drifts wide in attack
    Prop who can play a bit of lock
    Lock
    Lock
    Second rower who can also play lock
    Second rower

    It leaves five lock options, two of which are specialists and will therefore probably just split the 80 anyway, and only two second row options. It also potentially wastes a spot to an extent with one prop possibly only getting 10 minutes or so.

    This is why Bird ends up at lock so often, so another second rower can be selected and provide some sort of rotation option for them. It's also why we ended up with four forwards on the bench once Gallen was out. Our rotation doesn't fit.
     
    Cribbage, Oct 22, 2013
    #442

  3. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    Well, that and perhaps the fact that he's asked to do so much more tackling. That does tend to improve your technique. I think if Matt Gillett can handle 10 minutes in the middle-third then Watmough can handle 10 minutes on a fringe.

    I'm not sure who I'd pick at lock, but I certainly wouldn't be picking Cordner to start there based on his being a contingency plan for Bird and Lewis. That's bizarre, I have to say.

    The easiest solution I can see is to just pick Gallen at lock.
     
    Maroon_Faithful, Oct 22, 2013
    #443

  4. Cribbage RG Cribb

    I fail to see how that helps at all. You'd still only have two second rowers in the entire rotation; you'd just have Grant instead of Fensom. Same rotation.
     
    Cribbage, Oct 22, 2013
    #444

  5. Magic AJ Parker

    Yeh Watmough really muddles up the balance of the side. I'd seriously contemplate just picking him as a prop.
     
    Magic, Oct 22, 2013
    #445

  6. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    I thought the point of this thought-experiment was to find a solution that 1.Had Lewis and Bird covered for injury. 2.Didn't have a prop playing sfa game time. And 3.Didn't lead to Bird playing lock.

    Afaic 1.Watmough covers Lewis and Bird. Or at the very least, Gallen does. 2.The props would have a more equal share with Gallen starting at lock. Watmough would play fewer minutes. And 3.Bird obviously doesn't need to play lock with Gallen and Watmough in the side.
     
    Maroon_Faithful, Oct 22, 2013
    #446

  7. Cribbage RG Cribb

    Well I think with Gallen still playing such long minutes all the time, if you picked one prop, one second rower and Watmough on the bench, you'd still fit your prop rotation in okay.

    The more I think about it though, the more I like Cordner as starting lock. It'd allow us to do the Jason Taylor double decoy play on the left edge in the Queensland 20 with him and Bird both running off the half, which would be particularly useful if it was Pearce+Maloney again (please god, no :p). Then after Watmough came on he could either relieve him later or come on for one of the second rowers if they were buggered.

    That means I've got something like this:

    1. Hayne
    2. McManus
    3. Ferguson
    4. Jennings
    5. Morris
    6. Carney
    7. Mullen
    8. Tamou
    9. Farah
    10. Gallen
    11. Lewis
    12. Bird
    13. Cordner

    14. Fifita
    15. Merrin
    16. Watmough
    17. Gidley

    I've got nothing against Grant starting with Gallen at lock, or Fensom playing lock, but I just don't think it'd be the ideal balance as it'd leave as with no second row cover.
     
    Cribbage, Oct 22, 2013
    #447

  8. Cribbage RG Cribb

    This is the case regardless of whether Gallen plays prop or lock though. If you named Gallen at prop and Fensom (or anyone really) at lock then Watmough or Gallen would still cover the second row. I just don't think they do though, at all.
     
    Cribbage, Oct 22, 2013
    #448

  9. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    I wasn't claiming exclusivity to these eventualities, dude. Just a solution which I think covers all three.

    I think you're making way too much of it. Bird and Lewis are more than likely to play 80. It's strange for someone like you to pick a starting forward based primarily on the propensity of others to get injured. Seems to me like you just want Cordner in the team somewhere and you know he doesn't fit on the bench.
     
    Maroon_Faithful, Oct 22, 2013
    #449

  10. Cribbage RG Cribb

    It's not really about injury cover as such. It's rare for someone to get injured. Sometimes the game just flows in a way that you really only want one of your second rowers to play 65-70 though because he's buggered.

    In Game I this year, Hoffman only played 72 minutes.
    In Game II this year, Hoffman only played 59 minutes.
    In Game III this year, Hoffman only played 75 minutes and Lewis only played 48.

    It should be an 80 minute position within modern structure a lot of the time, for at least one second rower a match, but I reckon you're going to have a least a 10-15 minute period in most games where one of them ends up spent and needs to come off. I want that covered, and I don't think Gallen, Watmough or Fensom do it adequately.
     
    Cribbage, Oct 22, 2013
    #450

  11. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    Fair enough. The reason, or one of the reasons why I wouldn't be overly worried about Watmough's defence on the fringe is that Bird's isn't exactly Ron Coote-like either. He's been found out quite a few times and really hasn't aided his half, the man next to him, much at all.
     
    Maroon_Faithful, Oct 22, 2013
    #451

  12. Cribbage RG Cribb

    No idea what to do with the Gidley spot if Gidley is injured again. Kinda hoping McCrone plays that role for Canberra at the start of the year and guns it. Reynolds was gash.
     
    Cribbage, Oct 22, 2013
    #452

  13. Cribbage RG Cribb

    How much would you all laugh if I picked Beau Falloon? :ph34r:
     
    Cribbage, Oct 22, 2013
    #453

  14. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    Yeah not exactly Gidley MkII, was he? :p

    Craig Gower ftw.
     
    Maroon_Faithful, Oct 22, 2013
    #454

  15. Cribbage RG Cribb

    Gower's retiring after the World Cup I think.
     
    Cribbage, Oct 22, 2013
    #455

  16. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    Not as much as you think.

    Personally, I think you could do worse than Rory Kostjasyn.
     
    Maroon_Faithful, Oct 22, 2013
    #456

  17. Cribbage RG Cribb

    ... and he's not even playing that anymore :p So I think he's done.
     
    Cribbage, Oct 22, 2013
    #457

  18. Speirz DG Speirs

    To be honest, the player who strikes me as the most similar to Gidley is actually James Maloney. I'd obviously want to see him have some sort of time in the role during City-Country though before throwing him in there for Origin though.
     
    Speirz, Oct 22, 2013
    #458

  19. Magic AJ Parker

    I'd sooner pick Rein than Falloon or Kostjaysn.

    He's not explosive out of dummy half but he is good at taking the metres when they're on offer, strong defender and provides decent service.

    I think providing Farah with a break is just as beneficial to the team as potentially getting a dummy half to provide impact. If we can't do the latter then picking someone who wont let us down to provide Farah with a break is the best option imo.
     
    Magic, Oct 22, 2013
    #459

  20. Maroon_Faithful M Faithful

    Yeah, I like Rein. Always have. Would handle the job well IMO. Do you still think he's pus, EWS?
     
    Maroon_Faithful, Oct 22, 2013
    #460
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