Round 15 - Cyclones v Stingrays at The B.O.M. (completed)

Discussion in 'Season 11 Archive' started by Cribbage, May 30, 2012.

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  1. Eds E Ames

    Taylor in OD, maybe?
     
    Eds, Jun 1, 2012
    #101

  2. Skippos SM Morgan

    The difference between Dave and guys like Humble and Noir is that, Dave once was good. The two guys Eds and I are debating, really, were perennially shit and Eds believes perennially shit > unproven/inexperienced.

    I don't think Dave's selection falls into this whole issue much. Yeah, I'd probably have picked Himann or Downes, but it's not a terrible selection nor does it ruin a youth's career - as Eds is arguing it would have to Veza or Warrington.
     
    Skippos, Jun 1, 2012
    #102

  3. Cribbage RG Cribb

    That's a bit different to what he's saying as he's not basing it on activity as such. Humble is a proven failure in the BS so he was basing it on that; Dave is a proven success at that level.
     
    Cribbage, Jun 1, 2012
    #103

  4. Eds E Ames

    Noir has consistently performed in the ALC, to almost exactly the same level as Warrington. He's also performed well in the BS previously in his career. Not too long ago, either. So he gets the nod.

    This is essentially an argument about talent vs form, I feel, not about CricSim selection or rules. And it's obvious you rate form more highly, as mentioned previously. It doesn't break the rules for someone to rate talent and permanent class more highly.
     
    Eds, Jun 1, 2012
    #104

  5. Eds E Ames

    I'm not arguing it'd ruin their career, btw. I just find it disappointed when you throw him in at the deep-end and are happy to see him average 85 on debut.
     
    Eds, Jun 1, 2012
    #105

  6. Skippos SM Morgan

    OD is a completely different ballgame and you know it - I dispute that there's even a developmental aspect via performance; it's a 65/35 activity/swpr split, in FC it's the past performances that are the developmental factor which prevent newbies from playing.

    If the OD sim was new again, and tomorrow was round one for example, guys like Ochocinco could possibly start in r1. It's a completely different method for determining skill and therefore the way to handle and develop newbies is absolutely, 100% different and irrelevant to fc.

    If the criteria for simming averages was the same; it's apply, but it's not.
     
    Skippos, Jun 1, 2012
    #106

  7. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    its not a controvention of the rules unless it's clear cut. If it was otherwise then there'd be no latitude for selectorial judgement whatsoever. Cribb would just select the teams himself. You could have selected humble easily - no way you can know that he'd be a worse selection than Vera or not. The rules are a red herring, everything else you say is fair enough but just a different method than other selectors employ.
     
    HeathDavisSpeed, Jun 1, 2012
    #107

  8. Skippos SM Morgan

    THIS IS NOT SEASON SIX. NOIR AVERAGED 22 ACROSS 11 GAMES IN BS THIS SEASON. Essentially, you're saying you'd expect warrington to average less than that if he played 11 games. BULLSHIT.

    also lol @ you inferring noir was even once class.

    I'm not happy - but I said 1/65 off 20 I'd be okay with, and he got 1/66 off 18. That's good enough for me. Humble's shown in his recent BS games and ALC, if he was in, there's every likelyhood it'd have been 0/105 off 18.

    Given the alternative, I'm happy to see him average 85 on debut, yeah.
     
    Skippos, Jun 1, 2012
    #108

  9. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    I though noir had proven to be pretty useful in bs in past seasons. Though maybe that was just relative with respect to his post count.
     
    HeathDavisSpeed, Jun 1, 2012
    #109

  10. Cribbage RG Cribb

    Yeah, both methods are valid as long as these blokes both believe what they're saying. There's a bit of an honour system in place with the rules - you have to believe you're picking the best team based on performance.

    You can value long-term or short-term performance more if you like, but if you go against your own beliefs and deliberately select a worse team because you're either guessing simming averages based on activity or you're trying to hold players back because you don't want to ruin them, then that's against the rules. It's more about perceived intent than actual selections.
     
    Cribbage, Jun 1, 2012
    #110

  11. Skippos SM Morgan

    He averaged 69 in ALC in season 6, he's never averaged more than 33 in BS.

    He's like guys like Wells & Martyn. Really good for their post count. Or at least he was.
     
    Skippos, Jun 1, 2012
    #111

  12. Cribbage RG Cribb

    Yeah, Noir's a red herring that has been dragged into the debate because Skippos got defensive. His point definitely holds with Humble, who is the Mohammad Sami of CricSim.

    Noir was certainly never in the class of Dave though or held down a BS spot for longer than a couple of games at a time.
     
    Cribbage, Jun 1, 2012
    #112

  13. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    So, would you drop eds then, say?
     
    HeathDavisSpeed, Jun 1, 2012
    #113

  14. Skippos SM Morgan

    Would be interested to hear your thoughts on the whole issue, rob.
     
    Skippos, Jun 1, 2012
    #114

  15. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    which is the way it should be, in order to ensure that there's no ideal formula for selectorial success. It's an interesting debate, IMO.
     
    HeathDavisSpeed, Jun 1, 2012
    #115

  16. Cribbage RG Cribb

    Haha well I would have played Warrington ahead of Noir but I also would've played Humble. So I disagree with both of you. :p
     
    Cribbage, Jun 1, 2012
    #116

  17. Skippos SM Morgan

    He's got recent past performances at his back - it's not season six - and he has decent PSXI performances, plus he averages 28 which >>> noir's 22, but I would, if there was a person knocking on the door, drop him in a few more rounds, yeah.
     
    Skippos, Jun 1, 2012
    #117

  18. Eds E Ames

    Shock horror.
     
    Eds, Jun 1, 2012
    #118

  19. Skippos SM Morgan

    What about the principle though :P

    secondary question - why humble over veza?
     
    Skippos, Jun 1, 2012
    #119

  20. Skippos SM Morgan

    :lol:
     
    Skippos, Jun 1, 2012
    #120
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