English Football 13/14

Discussion in 'Association Football Discussion' started by Baxter, May 20, 2013.

Page 9 of 85

  1. SuperNova SJ Nova

    Ahem, where's Marko Marin?
     
    SuperNova, Jun 14, 2013
    #161

  2. loganb JEM Logan

    Just out of interest, did you check the season before?
     
    loganb, Jun 15, 2013
    #162

  3. Uppercut CB Faldo

    Allen's only 23, far too early to say that's a bad signing. Jarvis hasn't been that bad, West Ham fans all tell me he's been pretty good and he's done well when I've watched him. Sort of fallen victim to the bullshit "assists" stat. Although that said they clearly overpaid for him.
     
    Uppercut, Jun 15, 2013
    #163

  4. loganb JEM Logan

    Wouldn't say assists is entirely bullshit tbh.
     
    loganb, Jun 15, 2013
    #164

  5. Furball G Furball

    It's flawed though.
     
    Furball, Jun 15, 2013
    #165

  6. BoyBlunder BOY Blunder

    My housemate is a WH fan and hates him. He hated him before though tbf.

    Amazing wolves got £25 mill for Jarvis and Fletcher. Someone on their transfer team deserves a raise

    Yeh definitely. A player could do all the work dribbling past 8 people, cross it to someone who fluffs his shot into the path of a striker who taps in and the bloke who fluffs it gets the credit.

    The season before is irrelevent. Them playing him in midfield at the start of the season shows they signed him as a midfielder... them changing that later means it was either absolutely neccessary or completely validates the author's argument he was a shocking signing
     
    BoyBlunder, Jun 15, 2013
    #166

  7. Uppercut CB Faldo

    Don't really agree with this type of criticism. It's a bit like saying a country could boost its GDP by breaking all its windows and then fixing them. Reality will never be anything like that, so why does it matter?

    Assists will take forever to converge on anything sensible because they rely so heavily on team-mates finishing. So they're inefficient, but that's OK. The real problem is that they're biased. Slightly different tactics return completely different assist stats. I remember people used to bash Xabi Alonso for not getting many assists. He was setting players away down the flanks, far more effective than trying to go down the middle, but it doesn't get you as many assists. Looking at assists doesn't just tell you nothing, it tells you the wrong thing.

    Jarvis tends to float the ball up for Carroll or Vaz Te to knock down rather than drill in crosses that can be scored from. It can work just as well, they got a pretty unstoppable goal against us doing exactly that. But you get far less "assists" than with more direct crosses, which wouldn't even be as effective with that type of striker anyway.
     
    Uppercut, Jun 15, 2013
    #167

  8. SuperNova SJ Nova

    Probably not as all their signings in 12/13 have led them to League 1
     
    SuperNova, Jun 15, 2013
    #168

  9. Cevno IV Narang

    Rodwell has been injured too, tbf and done decently towards the end of the season when he's not been injured.

    Sunderland also signed Mangane for a decent loan fee + wages from Middle east and then used him in like 1/2 matches.

    West Ham brought over Wellington Paulista who only played u21 footy also. Not sure what he was on though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2013
    Cevno, Jun 15, 2013
    #169

  10. Furball G Furball

    It's quite amusing that 2 Martin O'Neill signings are on the list.
     
    Furball, Jun 15, 2013
    #170

  11. loganb JEM Logan

    No doubt, but it isn't entire bullshit.

    Or it shows that he excelled in that position.
     
    loganb, Jun 15, 2013
    #171

  12. BoyBlunder BOY Blunder

    I'm gonna say they were someone else's fault :P

    And Uppercut, your analysis much more in detail than mine, which was just an exaggerated way of saying someone can be heavily involved in the creation of a goal but not get credited with the assist simply because he didn't play the final ball
     
    BoyBlunder, Jun 15, 2013
    #172

  13. BoyBlunder BOY Blunder

    Why would they move him to LB in the first place? Either for depth, or because he was shunting elsewhere.

    And if he excelled then he A) wouldn't be on that list, and B) we wouln't be here talking about him being a shit LB
     
    BoyBlunder, Jun 15, 2013
    #173

  14. loganb JEM Logan

    You're talking about him being shit at LB. And he's been used at left back far more often in the last 5 years. I think you're ruling out a lot of possibilities in what you said tbh.
     
    loganb, Jun 15, 2013
    #174

  15. BoyBlunder BOY Blunder

    I said it, and you agreed:
    And your original point was author got it wrong because he's a LB now... when clearly the way they played him first half of the season shows they signed him with the intention of using him as a midfielder.

    Also 5 years massive overstatement. 2011/12 was the only season he's mainly been LB. Before that he played just as many games in midfield, where imo, he's much better because I think he's a liability at the back
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2013
    BoyBlunder, Jun 15, 2013
    #175

  16. loganb JEM Logan

    Well no, it doesn't.

    they could have signed him with the intention of using him as a utility left sided player, and eventually decided that'd be the best place for him.

    They could have signed him as a left back and were more impressed with how he was playing on the wing in training so decided to put him there.

    They could have signed him as a left back and decided he wasn't good enough for left back. But the only people who know what they signed him as are the people that signed him. Not the position that he played at the start of the season, because circumstances change.
     
    loganb, Jun 15, 2013
    #176

  17. BoyBlunder BOY Blunder

    There is no way they signed him as a left back wit John Arne Riise in the squad. Unless they signed him as backup but then why start him for the first half of the season in midfield?

    Even if he was signed as a utility player then labelling him as a midfelder is still valid. He knows more midfield positions than defencive.
     
    BoyBlunder, Jun 15, 2013
    #177

  18. loganb JEM Logan

    And they may well have signed him as back up, underrating his midfield play, then when he got there decided to put him in midfield.

    All I'm saying is that they may not have signed him as a midfielder, and you can't prove whether they did, the same way I can't prove if they didn't.

    And? I know a shit load more about music than I do about writing up bids, formatting CVs and submitting tenders, yet I'm doing that.

    Or if you want to use an in music analogy, I know more about the theory of music and writing pieces of music than I do about playing, but I studied playing and do more playing.
     
    loganb, Jun 15, 2013
    #178

  19. BoyBlunder BOY Blunder

    Yeh but taking your first analogy you would still label yourself as a musician.
     
    BoyBlunder, Jun 15, 2013
    #179

  20. loganb JEM Logan

    I certainly wouldn't. I'm being paid to write bids etc. not to play music.
     
    loganb, Jun 15, 2013
    #180
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