Home town advantage 'scientifically' proven

Discussion in 'Rugby Union Discussion' started by Hurricane, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. Notsure SM Green

    No it's not. Maybe the All Blacks are just a better disciplined side? You would have to compare with the All Blacks away penalty count just for starters. If you really wanted to prove something like this you would have to run an incredibly complex regression. You can't just look at the data and observe a relationship because correlation does not equal causation.
     
  2. Weeman27bob BE Force

    Unless "travel" has a specific definition in Super Rugby, I'm a bit lost as to why you'd separate travel and home advantage. Are there some clubs that don't have to travel when they play away?
     
  3. Cribbage RG Cribb

    I took "travel" to mean "travel overseas".
     
  4. Magrat Garlick M Garlick

    And from what I see Tucker doesn't have any evidence for his possible explanations, he's just quantifying what home ground and overseas travel does to the results.
     
  5. Notsure SM Green

    Going from Durban to Christchurch probably takes about 18 hours plus any stop overs. Big difference from that to traveling within your own country.
     
  6. Hurricane JD Hurricane

    True technically. But in ice hockey if you aren't incurring enough penalties usually your coach gets on your case for not playing aggressively enough and I think the ABs do push the limits. Nonethelss you are technically correct. There is a test to solve this and that is if I do the penalty counts for every game this season for the super rugby teams for all the teams. There is no way that they will all just be more disciplined when they play at home and reckless on the road, you are either a disciplined team or you are not. That is not a comment by the way on your suggestion that I should look at the ABs away record for penalties it is just a comment of why the potential analysis I am proposing would be either definitive or if not definitive very strong evidence at the least.
     
  7. Notsure SM Green

    But you surely accept there are other factors involved in home ground advantage, even if the referee was a significant factor? If you accept that travel is likely to be disadvantageous then how do you know that doesn't cause lopsided penalty counts? Teams that travel are more likely to be tired and tired teams are more likely to give away penalties.

    I don't see how, even if you can prove a relationship exists, you can isolate penalty counts and home town refereeing decisions.
     
  8. Jazz NC Smith

    I'm going to go out on a limb here (knowing very little about ice hockey) and call this complete and utter bullshit. I'm certain coaches get on a player's case if they aren't being aggressive enough. But to claim they get on a players case for not taking enough penalties is an absolute lie.

    Ice hockey may be different to other sports but I refuse to believe that it is so different that common sense is completely abandoned. Like all sports I assume penalties tend to increase with aggression but ultimately, every coach and every player with half a brain wants more aggression and fewer penalties.
     
  9. Jazz NC Smith

    One thing that often gets neglected in these discussions is the fact that sport still has a very significant psychological component. Regardless of how professional players become, the mental side of the game is still a huge factor and I think this is a major component of the home ground advantage.

    I think it rarely gets discussed because it is next to impossible to quantity.
     
  10. Hurricane JD Hurricane

    If you are given the choice of a forward who scores 100 points with 200 minutes on the season vs one with 100 points and 30 penalty minutes. You will, depending on the mix of your team, usually take the guy with more penalty minutes as it means he does more hits and gets into fights. It means he is a power forward.

    edit - also if you don't know hockey why are you debating it?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
  11. BoyBlunder BOY Blunder

    I'd like to see an article that contains proof and not just conjecture. All he's talked about here are the results and not the cause... you're just extrapolating to suit your own agenda
     
  12. Hurricane JD Hurricane

    DWTA - re-read the OP and his words that I bolded.
     
  13. BoyBlunder BOY Blunder

    Yeah and where does he offer proof for that?
     
  14. Notsure SM Green

    The words that you bolded directly support what Boy Blunder is saying. The words you bolded start off with "Tucker also said that the referee could". I think that is quite clearly conjecture. The article doesn't state "the results clearly proved."

    All the article, and indeed Mr Tucker, is saying is that playing at home will give the Crusaders a 10 point advantage and that advantage could be down to several possible factors. One of those factors could be the referee favouring the home side; or it could not be due to that at all.
     
  15. Jazz NC Smith

    Because some ideas are so stupid that you don't need to be an expert to spot them.
     
  16. Weeman27bob BE Force

    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
  17. Weeman27bob BE Force

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  18. Weeman27bob BE Force

    It's interesting that he seems to have changed his tune a little bit.

    Old article: Referee bias is the main factor above travel, familiarity or attitude. Worth about 5 points maximum.

    New article: Travel is equally as important as simply playing away from home (which includes referee bias, familiarity and attitude). Home advantage and travel are both worth five points each (on all occasions?).
     
  19. HeathDavisSpeed HT Davis

    That is more interesting. Though I struggle to comprehend how watching footage on a television can in any way equate to officiating in a stadium. If those are the results, then I'd expect an even more skewed bias in real games. Seriously, how is there any pressure from the home crowd (how do you even tell which is the home crowd?) watching videos? How have his initial conclusions stood up to peer review?
     
  20. Jazz NC Smith

    It would be interesting to see how he did set up the experiment and how he constructed his base line for comparison.

    Then there is also the issue of being shown '50-50' calls.
     

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