Veri's post sums this up well. Fairly certain Wilkinson is still the overall leading points scorer in all rugby world cups. Aside from his unbelievable kicking, his defence and commitment to the team was also unbelievable. No matter what state he was in, he'd always put his body on the line. Would say that only Martin Johnson was better than him from the 2003 world cup team. Would have said it would have been better for him to retire earlier tbh. This whole post is :fp: worthy.
Wilkinson was a good player and was exactly what England needed in 2003. That was a great team with an awesome forward pack and some decent backs too. All England needed was Wilkinson to control the game and that worked well for them. However, you can't be called a great player if you aren't good at everything and Wilkinson couldn't create anything. He certainly wasn't a one dimensional kicking machine but his overall running of a backline was terrible. England were always going to struggle after 2003 since their pack just wasn't dominant enough. If you look at the 2nd Lions test in 2005 you can see how Carter is a far superior player. If Wilkinson played for Australia or New Zealand both backlines would be wasted.
Some good backs? A team that only has some good backs doesn't win the world cup... And he most definitely could create things, but it wasn't something he particularly needed to do, especially with the unbelievable amount of points he scored from his kicking alone.
We had the best passing back in the world and the best running back in the world IMO. Anyway, FTR, I actually think that Wilkinson's ability to control a game was/is massively overrated. He needed the likes of Dawson and Greenwood shouting at him...he's actually not much of a decision maker to be honest. Still, I still believe that for that 1 or 2 year period running up to the world cup he was the best player in the world.
So presumably Lomu wasn't a great player, being as his defensive positioning and his hands weren't great, and his kicking was diabolical?...
Haha, my point was that NotSure was spouting rubbish, not that Lomu wasn't one of the top 5 greatest players of all time.
In this current game i don't think Lomu would have been as effective as he was when he played but different generations and the evolution of rugby should be judged on what standard of game they had to play in even if the elite level would be a few levels below what elite means these days.
Probably none of the above, actually. Lomu would be less effective now as a result of changes in the game that HE largely drove. That says it all really.
Lomu was a great player but is massively overrated. I liken him to Mike Tyson who had a lot aura and was considered invincible but when you boil it down was only the 3rd greatest heavyweight of his era, at best. A winger is obviously not so fundamental to a team's performance as a first five. A first five though has to be an all rounded player. Wilkinson's kicking, defence and control of a game were excellent and that meant that when England's forwards were providing go forward ball they were unstoppable. However, when the forwards are on the backfoot, Wilkinson looks quite clueless and his only response is generally to go back into the pocket and kick. This, along with injures, meant that his prime only lasted three years with occasional bursts of form like during the 07 world cup when the rugby again suited his playing style. A defensively deficient winger may leak you tries but Lomu could always make it up at the other end and was relatively self reliant. Wilkinson relied more heavily on those around him. He had players like Robinson to create out wide and his forward pack was dominant. That was probably the greatest team rugby has seen since the 1971 Lions. Wilkinson was a key element to that team but he in no way made the team. Wilkinson to me is a flat truck bully.
None of those players would be in my top 5 greatest rugby players of all time, they would all be a lot closer than Lomu was though. Carter and McCaw could make it in time. My top 5 would include some of the likes of Barry John, Gareth Edwards, Willie John McBride, Michael Jones, Gavin Hastings, Serge Blanco, Martin Johnson, Colin Meads, David Campese, Zinzan Brooke.
There is no way in hell that Dan Carter isn't in the top 3 of the best rugby players ever. The man has everything and can do it all!
I respect your opinions on union, but if you consider George Gregan even half the player that Lomu was, you're deluded.
